Finally, an explanation from the consumer’s side. 

(Thanks to Halm for posting the link to “ourdogsonline” blog and the recent Natura post regarding test results.)

I’ve received some questions regarding the difference in test results, so I thought it might be helpful to hear an explanation from the consumer’s side. 

Submission of Samples for Analysis
We purchased 2 bags of dog food and the chunks were in both bags.  We submitted two samples for analysis from each bag.  There was a general scoop of kibble from the bag and a separate sample with the most prominent chunks.  We also submitted photos of the most prominent chunks so there would be no question what we were referring to.  Identical samples were sent to Natura’s manufacturing plant and Expertox Lab.


Donna’s Analysis

1.  Expertox Lab
Sample(s) Received:  May 25, 2007        Sample(s) Tested:  June 4, 2007

ExperTox tests to 0.1 ppm. 
 
“Unknown Chemicals and Other Toxins” scan

A.  General Scoop from Kibble – this yielded no detection of toxins.

B.  “Chunks” – yielded detection of cyanuric acid at 3.71 ug/g and trace of acetaminophen.   



Natura’s Analysis at 3 Laboratories

NOTE:  This is per my review of the analysis reports posted on the company’s website which Mr. Atkins provided the link.  I will post from those test results below and follow with my comments regarding important points to consider. 



Midwest Labs tests to 10 ppm.  Thus, they are not going to detect anything below 10 ppm.  My result for cyanuric acid was 3.71 ug/g – so this lab would not have detected cyanuric acid.  My result was for a trace of acetaminophen – so this lab would not have detected acetaminophen.

Question –
Would you want to know if there was any cyanuric acid or acetaminophen or any other toxin in your pet food?
  ----  or  ----
Are you “ok” knowing there may be some level of toxin in your pet food, however it’s under 10 ppm? 


The FDA stated traceable amounts of melamine are considered adulteration.  Thus, I would think any other compound not approved for use in pet food would also be adulteration.

Reference - the April 19, 2007 FDA Press Conference regarding Pet Food,
David Kerley of ABC asked “Can you explain it from a food (science) purpose or reason why the company wanted to do it?”
(his reference is to adding melamine to protein supplements). 

Dr. Stephen Sundlof, Director, FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine – “the motivation would be economic”

Michael Rogers, FDA, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Director, Division of Field Investigations – “the headline is, it shouldn’t be there and raw materials and finished pet foods that contain traceable amounts of melamine are considered adulterated”

http://www.fda.gov/oc/opacom/hottopics/petfood/transcript041907.pdf



UC Davis tested for acetaminophen at 1 ppm. 

Why did they test a production sample at UC Davis and not my sample?   Quoting:  “We also sent representative samples of the production run of Donna’s food for additional testing at UC Davis and Expertox; all of which came back negative.” 

http://www.itchmo.com/read/innova-testing-results-posted-by-ceo-of-naturapet_20070724#comment-39706
and  http://www.ourdogsonline.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/125393#Post125393


Consider this –  We discussed our concerns regarding levels of detection in testing with Mr. Atkins on June 13.  He addressed those concerns with us on June 15.  “He stated he consulted with a vet nutritionist at UC Davis who told him it was “impossible” to test at levels to 0.1 ppm.  The vet consultant said you would do good to get 10 ppm, but anything less than 10 ppm was impossible and that you would run a greater risk of false readings. 
Thus, why would UC Davis test for acetaminophen at a level of 1 ppm? 

Which statement from UC Davis should we believe –
the one that says it is “impossible” to test below 10 ppm
-- or  -- 
the analysis that was completed by UC Davis which tested at 1 ppm?   

Why did UC Davis only test for acetaminophen?  What about cyanuric acid?”   
If UC Davis had tested for cyanuric acid at 1 ppm they would have found it and, keep in mind, the toxins were detected in the chunks, not the overall kibble sample. 

Another point to consider – research the EPA and pesticides.  A very smart friend passed this along to me.  Melamine is a byproduct (metabolite) of cyromazine which is a pesticide.  The EPA documents tolerances for residues for cyromazine and certain food products and the tolerance levels go as low as 0.5, 0.1, and 0.05ppm.   
Thus, if the EPA references testing tolerance levels to 0.05ppm, it must be possible.



Again, why did they test a production sample at ExperTox and not my sample?   (reference above)   

------------------

In summary, as a pet owner and a consumer you have to make the decision for what you feel is safe.  We have all heard about dilution factors, low risk, etc., but we have also heard about redacted ingredients and lack of regulation.  And “yl” had an excellent question – “…can what ever made my pets sick have any long term effects?”  We can only hope it will not.   

My parents used to say, “if you want something done right, do it yourself.”   My pets will not be fed commercial foods any longer and I will not be "fed" confusing information any longer.   It’s up to us to find the answers. 

Donna

I was looking on that Alibaba website that Menusux quotes frequently.  When you search through Chinese companies, you can find a number of them (such as Longcom Enterprises Limited) that sell various vitamin powders, mineral powders, acetaminophen powders, pharmaceutical powders, lots of amino acid powders and, of course, vital wheat gluten.  Back to the questions we had about Menu Foods.  Do they clean their machines between runs? Is acetaminophen cheaper than some of the vitamins? On and on........ When the DEG was shipped to Panama, supposedly certificates of purity were passed along by the importers.  Each importer put their name and address on the certificate, but it was the original Chinese certificate stating it was over 99% pure.  How many kids died? Over 100?  I don't understand why these companies haven't tested the Chinese vitamin premix, when Donna has shown it is not evenly dispersed throughout the food. It reminds me of the FEMA trailer story.  The lawyers said don't test for formaldehyde because then you'll own the problem. So they don't do what's right and decent because some corporate attorneys said no.

Donna,

Don't mean to get off topic, but that same Federal Register EPA document that deals with the cyromazine allowable levels is what the FDA used to eliminate the requirement to test for melamine.  I believe it was the result of a Novartis petition in 1999.

I've posted the link many times on ITCHMO, but if anyone wants it again, just let me know.

5CatMom

     

lacy
Let's say I was making an educated guess.And I don't post without a good reason,so you may want to read my previous posts in this forum topic.At this time I can't really say much more.

Carolo like your dog mine also would not eat the Karma unless mixed with the canned food. Was this way from the 2nd bag and that goes back to this past January. When I read the Innova problems and know they are both made by same company wondered if the increased grass eating was from something added to the kibble that was not in it before. I too really liked the fact the company was building their own plant to control every aspect of the production of their food. And the question of testing according to their site that they do every batch? Why did this problem occur if this food has been tested all along? Tested for what, what level and where? This is all not too transparent yet. For those of you not having a problem please post what state you live in when making a positive response regarding the Innova and maybe it can be narrowed down to west coast, midwest or east coast that the problems are happening the most frequently. Thx.

  Let's assume that the Natura  ("Not bought as a premix,but custom mixed by them from all American made vitamins")  "vitamin premix" is perfectly safe and always has been.Exactly where and when was it established the dark "rocks" in various Natura foods ARE vitamin premix?
 Everything I've seen and read indicate that these rocks are NOT in any way a soluble vitamin substance.Oh,wait, we know the mystery rocks are a vitamin premix because Natura said so.Since Natura reads this forum,I'm sure they will promptly post the lab results of the "dark rock" substance identification tests.And answer all of Donna's extremely pertinent unanswered questions.
 Excuse me as I just go & hold my breath while I wait for any answer of importance from Natura. Ooooh,look what a pretty shade of blue I'm turning...

PS
 KimS,I wasn't trying to be nasty to you,I just would rather keep close to topic so the main idea does not get lost in the shuffle.Anyone can start a new forum to discuss the pro & cons of supplements if they wish.And once again I remind everyone,OFFY has posted links to state agriculture testing (USE it if you can)  and links to acetaminophen articles under "test results" forum that are must reads.

ElenaL- you are so right ! Who knows what those black flecks are. I found them in my lab mixes holistic tranquilizers too. I had white 1's in Pur 1 tested & it was vit e. I don't think we can trust anything the pf co's tell us at this point.